Joe Rogan and Charlie Kirk ask if Francis is really the pope
Even those outside the Church like Joe Rogan and Charlie Kirk can see there's a problem with Francis. We need to be able to give them robust answers.
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Introduction
In January 2025, there have been two big signs of the importance of a clear answer for non-Catholics about the problems posed by Francis.
It is quite something when even non-Catholics can see how implausible it is to say that Francis is the Roman Pontiff.
Some Catholics, on the other hand, believe that even discussing this issue is going too far, and that it could lead to “dangerous” conclusions, a “dead end,” and will scandalised non-Catholics and prevent them from entering the Church.
In fact, discussing this issue, for the sake of reaching the truth of the matter, is a moral imperative.
That’s because it addresses questions that go to the heart of the Catholic faith and the very credibility of the Catholic Church herself.
If you think that this phenomenon can be answered by saying, “We don’t care what non-Catholics, celebrities or political shills think about Francis,” then you’re missing the point.
The point is this: leaving Rogan and Kirk themselves to one side, there are those outside the Church who are asking big questions like this in good faith; and we have a duty of justice and of charity to give them them proper answers which deal with the questions squarely, rather than trying to square away the problems.
Let’s dig into Joe Rogan and Charlie Kirk’s comments, and see what we should make of them.
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