For decades, the same arguments against sedevacantism have appeared again and again. But the answers have been around just as long: here's James Larrabee's classic refutation from around 20 years ago.
You’re betting on fantasy, something that doesn’t exist, and no one has promised you, least of all God. Nowhere has God promised you a holy Pope Paul IV. The Papacy is a historical institution that developed over time. You have lost the battle of history. Enjoy Pope Zuppi, even though you won’t accept him, and keep holding out for a champion who will never arrive.
It's a time out for you. It's nothing to do with a sedevacantist bubble - you are denying the Catholic faith, and that's why you get a time-out. This is not good faith questioning. I don't have to provide an outlet for it, you can do it elsewhere. Good day.
It's not true that you must accept a false pope's heresies if you accept him as a pope. This is a very problematic argument. Please see here, from a sede perspective:
A (true) Pope can give an evil command. We are obliged to not obey it. An evil command here is to one person, or a small group as opposed to entire Faithful.
A Pope cannot give evil laws, in Canon Law, to the entire faithful.*
He cannot teach give poison to the entire Faithful in teaching on Faith and Morals, in canonizations, in giving us a change in liturgy (which would be an accidental change).
I am parroting Father Cekada, Bishop Sanborn, novusordowatch etc.
(*Can a pope utter heresy? One never has. I believe the Church has never defined this. I would of course submit if I were to find out. I don't believe a Pope could fall into heresy, but if he did, he would fall That instant from his office, judged by God.
The 6 false popes were failed papal claimants. They Never became popes).
Papacy was established by Jesus after His Resurrection. Do you love Me? To Peter three times… FEED MY SHEEP. 33ad.
modernists say elsewhere. They are heretics.
Enjoy Popr Zuppi? What are you talking about? Sedevacantists don't recognize any pope. A few strange cults recognize strange individuals as such - they aren't Catholic and aren't accepted by us -
Pope Paul IV was a 16th century Pope who wrote famous Bull telling faithful to reject someone who won conclave who wasn't Catholic. Utterly clear. Why people would want to do otherwise is beyond me
May I ask in what writing Fr Cekada addresses this topic? I could not find it with a simple search.
Interesting, thank you for sharing!
As it sounds, I do not accept it at all.
Francis, John Paul II Ratz, etc were not Catholic when they won Concoave.
A non Catholic can't become Pope.
Thus, these men Never became Pope.
See this, esp #6
https://dailycatholic.org/cumexapo.htm.
If you accept them as Popes, you are in catch 22 of heresy or schism.
You aren't free to call them Pope and then reject their heresies.
Both take you out of the Catholic Church.
When Catholic Church gets a Pope he will have one small loyal group: sedevacantists
There’s no way any such thing will ever happen. You will go to your graves with phonies like Zuppi wearing white.
It's one of great bets of all time you bet on idolator, attacker of Mary, "we together with the muslims" , about 500 acts of utter blasphemy-
we'll bet on Pope Paul IV, If anyone preach a gospel different... Let him be anathema, perennial teaching of Holy Mother Church, and common sense.
Enjoy your final judgement✌😎
You’re betting on fantasy, something that doesn’t exist, and no one has promised you, least of all God. Nowhere has God promised you a holy Pope Paul IV. The Papacy is a historical institution that developed over time. You have lost the battle of history. Enjoy Pope Zuppi, even though you won’t accept him, and keep holding out for a champion who will never arrive.
Please, begone.
It's a time out for you. It's nothing to do with a sedevacantist bubble - you are denying the Catholic faith, and that's why you get a time-out. This is not good faith questioning. I don't have to provide an outlet for it, you can do it elsewhere. Good day.
There are Non binding Catholic prophecies about a Holy Pope and Great Catholic Konarvh.
You are free not to believe. Many good Catholics don't.
But I believe in all what Our Lady if Fatima said . A pope would consecrated Russia. And Her Immaculate Heart would Triumph.
This is not binding for Catholics. I'm free to wonder about the logic of such Catholics, who are good Catholics. But with not so good logic
Jesus promised that the Gates of Hell, meaning heresy, would not overcome His Church.
If these last 6 imposters were popes, He lied.
But perennial Catholic teaching is that a non Catholic can't become Pope.
Sedevacantists would submit to a bad Pope.
You are mixing up bad popes with non Catholic non popes.
Church Jesus founded is very tiny, Stoll Spotless Bride of Christ, in very general terms, it's the sedevacantists.
So when you accept a non Catholic non Pope as Pope, you must accept his heresies.
If you don't, like SSPX , Michael Matt, Taylor Marshall, you're in schism. (You're not allowed to “sift” what the Pope days on faith and morals)
Either way, you are outside of the Catholic Church. I counter Pope aloud XII on this if you wish.
Sedevacantists are following exactly what Holy Mother Church would have us do.
Who are you talking to?
It's not true that you must accept a false pope's heresies if you accept him as a pope. This is a very problematic argument. Please see here, from a sede perspective:
https://www.wmreview.org/p/true-and-false-obedience
A (true) Pope can give an evil command. We are obliged to not obey it. An evil command here is to one person, or a small group as opposed to entire Faithful.
A Pope cannot give evil laws, in Canon Law, to the entire faithful.*
He cannot teach give poison to the entire Faithful in teaching on Faith and Morals, in canonizations, in giving us a change in liturgy (which would be an accidental change).
I am parroting Father Cekada, Bishop Sanborn, novusordowatch etc.
(*Can a pope utter heresy? One never has. I believe the Church has never defined this. I would of course submit if I were to find out. I don't believe a Pope could fall into heresy, but if he did, he would fall That instant from his office, judged by God.
The 6 false popes were failed papal claimants. They Never became popes).
You are following RR crowd… they aren't Catholic.
That article started off that we sedes, believe we need to believe the pope in everything.
Not true. If a (true) Pope told me to steal $500 out of the plate and give it to his nephew, I would tell him I could not obey his evil command.
If he taught there were 45 states, I would tell him he's not teaching on Faith and Morals and he's incorrect anyway.
Many, many misconceptions about 1958 sedevacantists
You Do have to believe what Pope teaches on Faith and Morals (approved theologians, A little nuanced).
If you can't, this a glaring red flag. And it has happened since Oct 1958.
God is being merciful in giving so much time, and allowing such Fragrant, repeated examples of heresy.
Papacy was established by Jesus after His Resurrection. Do you love Me? To Peter three times… FEED MY SHEEP. 33ad.
modernists say elsewhere. They are heretics.
Enjoy Popr Zuppi? What are you talking about? Sedevacantists don't recognize any pope. A few strange cults recognize strange individuals as such - they aren't Catholic and aren't accepted by us -
Pope Paul IV was a 16th century Pope who wrote famous Bull telling faithful to reject someone who won conclave who wasn't Catholic. Utterly clear. Why people would want to do otherwise is beyond me
Very few sedevacantists have a Pope. It has happened with bogus conclaves but they are anathema to great majority of 1958 sedes
Saint Roger Bellarmine backs up sede position. Watch for things taken out of context by R$R camp
https://www.fathercekada.com/2014/05/07/bergoglio-hes-got-nothing-to-lose/
So is Francis Not a heretic?
Does a papal claimant Not have to be Catholic?
Be intellectually silicone and honrst. You're eternal salvation could very well depend on it.
Didn't Mr. Gruber reject Francis as Pope? Decide it was Ratzinger? I thought I heard that.