Despite apparent legitimacy, the Conciliar or Conciliar/Synodal Church lacks the four notes essential to identify the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church of Christ. But then where is the Church?
“The true doctrine holds that the Church is also distinctly visible as the true Church of Christ, with the same constitution and properties with which she was endowed by her Founder. It means that she will indefectibly and perpetually remain so.”
So what does this hold for “traditional” groups, especially those that have their own constitution?
The great society of the Catholic Church was always made up of smaller societies with their own constitutions. The traditional groups, as I understand them, are de facto groupings of Catholics, and even if their de facto constitutions lack legal reality, they nonetheless constitute parts of the Church. Relevant below:
Your comment is something that I think isn’t well understood and could do with further explanation.
My formerly sede friend became a Popesplainer because he couldn’t find a place for the traditional groups in Church history. At the same time some sede groups have rejected the magisterial teaching on the true meaning of Apostolic Succession and the need for the Church to always have successors to the apostles causing scandal to him and causing him to reject all that they were saying despite him previously being very staunch in the position.
Specifically, which parts of the article you linked are relevant to your last comment? It is very long and my mind may not join the dots in the same way yours has.
“As we shall see here in due course, those who insist that the Conciliar-Synodal Church is the Church of Christ are like the disciples who could not comprehend that Our Lord was somewhere other than where their natural expectations would have him – and so did not recognise him in his resurrection.“
I would very much like to see this article expanded upon or linked to another summary article where this is elaborated upon further. I think this is a stumbling block for many Catholics. It would also be great if this article was shifted from paid to public access.
"We are often told that those who reject this Conciliar-Synodal Church are like those who could not recognise Our Lord in the humiliations of his Passion, and so either rejected him with the Jews or fled with the Apostles."
When I converted to the Catholic Church from the New Order sect, my kids (and kids are often more astute than adults) pointed out that it was ALMOST like the New Order secret had an aversion to the Passion, and so minimized trials and sufferings, and went out of it's way to make people feel good.
When they pointed that out, I was drawn to the situation in Esdras, Nehemias is asked, after the returning Jews have sold their children to slavery and mortgages their corn, they are in so much suffering. He responded that it was because they, in their desire to minimize suffering in a worldly sense, abandoned God. The trials of the New Order are self-inflicted, because they abandoned the True Faith...not some mystical passion.
Depends on the definition of "whole". My wife and kids did, but the other Catholics are stuck in the New Order.
We hear many Traditionalists say that the New Order is a different religion. That becomes abundantly clear when you go from the New Order to the Catholic Faith.
“The true doctrine holds that the Church is also distinctly visible as the true Church of Christ, with the same constitution and properties with which she was endowed by her Founder. It means that she will indefectibly and perpetually remain so.”
So what does this hold for “traditional” groups, especially those that have their own constitution?
The great society of the Catholic Church was always made up of smaller societies with their own constitutions. The traditional groups, as I understand them, are de facto groupings of Catholics, and even if their de facto constitutions lack legal reality, they nonetheless constitute parts of the Church. Relevant below:
https://www.wmreview.org/p/leo-xiii-duties-of-laymen
Your comment is something that I think isn’t well understood and could do with further explanation.
My formerly sede friend became a Popesplainer because he couldn’t find a place for the traditional groups in Church history. At the same time some sede groups have rejected the magisterial teaching on the true meaning of Apostolic Succession and the need for the Church to always have successors to the apostles causing scandal to him and causing him to reject all that they were saying despite him previously being very staunch in the position.
Specifically, which parts of the article you linked are relevant to your last comment? It is very long and my mind may not join the dots in the same way yours has.
“As we shall see here in due course, those who insist that the Conciliar-Synodal Church is the Church of Christ are like the disciples who could not comprehend that Our Lord was somewhere other than where their natural expectations would have him – and so did not recognise him in his resurrection.“
I would very much like to see this article expanded upon or linked to another summary article where this is elaborated upon further. I think this is a stumbling block for many Catholics. It would also be great if this article was shifted from paid to public access.
"We are often told that those who reject this Conciliar-Synodal Church are like those who could not recognise Our Lord in the humiliations of his Passion, and so either rejected him with the Jews or fled with the Apostles."
When I converted to the Catholic Church from the New Order sect, my kids (and kids are often more astute than adults) pointed out that it was ALMOST like the New Order secret had an aversion to the Passion, and so minimized trials and sufferings, and went out of it's way to make people feel good.
When they pointed that out, I was drawn to the situation in Esdras, Nehemias is asked, after the returning Jews have sold their children to slavery and mortgages their corn, they are in so much suffering. He responded that it was because they, in their desire to minimize suffering in a worldly sense, abandoned God. The trials of the New Order are self-inflicted, because they abandoned the True Faith...not some mystical passion.
Thanks for this Aaron. I think the "mystical passion" idea has some utility but it can definitely be overused.
Did your whole family come with you?
Here's the essay to which that was alluding though:
https://www.wmreview.org/p/easter-octave
Depends on the definition of "whole". My wife and kids did, but the other Catholics are stuck in the New Order.
We hear many Traditionalists say that the New Order is a different religion. That becomes abundantly clear when you go from the New Order to the Catholic Faith.